My humble abode for American TV Wrestling.
 
HomeCalendarFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 1997 Discussion

Go down 
AuthorMessage
Admin
Admin


Posts : 1148
Join date : 2012-08-11

PostSubject: 1997 Discussion   Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:16 pm

Discuss Raw in 1997.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://theteaparty.forumga.net
Admin
Admin


Posts : 1148
Join date : 2012-08-11

PostSubject: Re: 1997 Discussion   Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:14 pm

Steve Austin & Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart & The Brittish Bulldog (5/26/97)
I talked about the Dallas ten man from 2000 being one of the best segments in the history of the show, but this might be ahead of it. Just Michaels bouncing around like a rubber ball and Austin flipping off anything with a pulse. Owen and Davey were a great team and they're fabulous in their role here. Just perfect catalysts to go up against this rag tag team. Michaels is always fun to watch take a shitkicking and Austin acts like he was put on this Earth to receive the hot tag. Once he does, it's Michaels' Super Kick that gets Austin the victory. Austin then leaves Shawn to get raped by the Hart Foundation, while Stone Cold runs up the ramp to murder Bret. Vince screaming, "No! No! No!" while Austin attacks Bret's leg is just beautiful. Match itself is only about 11 minutes, but throw in everything that occurs and you get what pro wrestling is to me. Just about the easiest nomination ever.

****1/2
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://theteaparty.forumga.net
Admin
Admin


Posts : 1148
Join date : 2012-08-11

PostSubject: Re: 1997 Discussion   Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:15 pm

Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart (WWF Raw 12/29/97)
-An odd, but pretty good match. This is supposed to be Owen's revenge for what Shawn did to Bret at Survivor Series. The crowd didn't seem to care about Owen very much though, so it came across as a little flat and disappointing to me. Owen catches Shawn off guard at the beginning with a suicide dive (which we didn't see because a DX music video was playing, and they didn't bother replaying it), and Shawn did his usual pinballing for him for the first few minutes. JR was pretty annoying here - He's too busy to call the action at one point because he has to get in his shots at WCW, and says Shawn has "stinging left hands" after he completely whiffs his punches by about 6 inches while Owen is hung up on the guardrail. The match is less than 10 minutes long but they still work in a near 2 minute sleeper spot. Nice callback with Owen's enzuigiri at the end, and the last couple minutes are pretty good, but the finish itself was botched. I've seen people give this 4 stars and say it's a great match, but I don't know what they were watching. **3/4
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://theteaparty.forumga.net
Admin
Admin


Posts : 1148
Join date : 2012-08-11

PostSubject: Re: 1997 Discussion   Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:16 pm

Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind – RAW 08/11/97
This was the night D-X was born due to HHH/Mankind feud throughout the year. Mankind and HBK take sick bump on the announce table here. Mind Games may be their finest match but this was pretty great too. I know Craig will like it.

Cactus Jack vs. Triple H (Falls Count Anywhere) – RAW 09/22/97
This match for a long time was and still is considered a RAW classic. I think it still holds up today. The Three Faces of Foley promo before the match is just incredible. Triple H totally could have broken his neck in the Piledriver table finish.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://theteaparty.forumga.net
Admin
Admin


Posts : 1148
Join date : 2012-08-11

PostSubject: Re: 1997 Discussion   Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:22 pm

Steve Austin & Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart & The British Bulldog (WWF Raw 5/26/97)
-Such a great tag. They had a winning formula here - Shawn's one of the best tag wrestlers ever, Austin and Owen are fantastic workers, and Davey Boy wasn't put in a position to screw up. I think this was the first big "tag partners that hate each other" storyline that got overused to a comical degree in later years. It's fresh here, and the stories blend together very well. Austin and Shawn both detest the Hart Foundation, and whether they like it or not, they need each other to survive. Bret, Pillman, and Neidhart are standing on the top of the ramp, and it makes for a unique atmosphere. This is basically southern tag formula, and one of the better examples of it I've seen in the WWF. The segment where the babyfaces run wild at the beginning is great, the heat section is great, and the finish is great. They tease Austin being the face in peril as they head into the first commercial, but it's a red herring. It's Shawn return match after faking a leg injury, and the crowd is hot for him, so he plays FIP after they come back from commercial. It rules as much as you could hope. He bumps big and pinballs for everyone. Some good double teaming from the heels, great teasing of the hot tag, drama, heat, crowd manipulation, etc. Austin's tremendous on the ring apron as well. He eventually gets the hot tag and goes nuts on everyone. The finish comes a little out of nowhere, but it's perfect for what they're going for. It continued the theme of them needing each other if they want to beat the Hart Foundation. Post match is even better, as Austin deserts Michaels as he's getting killed by Pillman, Owen, Neidhart, and runs up the ramp to fight Bret. He tackles him and pounds on his injured leg in one of my favorite Raw moments ever. This will do very well on my list. ****
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://theteaparty.forumga.net
Admin
Admin


Posts : 1148
Join date : 2012-08-11

PostSubject: Re: 1997 Discussion   Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:01 am

British Bulldog vs Owen Hart - European Championship - Raw 03.03.1997
Right, so normally when a Raw match gets pimped out as being a classic I normally think that people overrate it when I end up watching it myself. Aint the case with this beauty. Owen is probably one of the best chain wrestlers ever in my book and probably the best great wrestler than never got to be a great wrestler. I know his death didn't help coming when it did, but he was so much potential that never got loose properly. Luckily Davey can hold his won chain wrestling too and this makes for some awesome shit between these two especially in the early parts. Aside from being an amazing pure wrestling match, it plays really nicely too on the both guys being friends and knowing each other well card that's thrown into the equation, especially with slight heel tactics from Owen to disgruntle Davey. From top to bottom though, it's just 15 minutes of amazing wrestling which you cant ask any more out of really. It's just a shame that there aint bagfuls of Owen classics like this that there could be. Probably the best Raw match I've ever seen too off the top of my head. Only the Benoit/Trips Ironman match comes close that I can recall.

****1/2
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://theteaparty.forumga.net
Admin
Admin


Posts : 1148
Join date : 2012-08-11

PostSubject: Re: 1997 Discussion   Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:02 am

Owen vs. Bulldog (3/3/97)
Loved how this was played out. Story being that even though both guys are heel, they’ve decided to put their cheating ways aside to finally find out who the better man is. They trade holds to open, which Davey gets the better of. There’s a great part in the match where Bulldog holds the ropes for Owen when he’s dumped to the floor, and when Bulldog takes a spill to the outside a few minutes later, Owen notices he hurts his knee and lets him back in. Owen then fakes a knee injury of his own, and when Davey doesn’t bite, Owen go directly to the hurt leg of his partner. Best part about it is, Davey was faking as well and he powers out of the Sharpshooter with ease. Middle portion of the match is really the only flaw I have with this. They proceed to the go home part of the match nicely with more not so subtle cheating before Davey beats Owen in a slightly similar fashion to how Owen beat Bret. Pretty easily the best Raw match ever for my money. Doesn’t hold up at ***** like I used to have it due to the middle portion, but still worthy of some consideration from me. Not really sure where this is gonna go as I have some lower rated matches ahead of it that might seem kind of funky given this match's high rating, but I'd say in the top 30 is a lock. Probably top 25. ****3/4
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://theteaparty.forumga.net
Admin
Admin


Posts : 1148
Join date : 2012-08-11

PostSubject: Re: 1997 Discussion   Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:08 am

Bret Hart v Vader (RAW, 1/6/97)
- Match itself is average at best, but Michaels does guest commentary and takes shots at Hart with almost every word that comes out of his mouth. Also a great moment before the match even starts with Sid doing an interview in the ring with Ross, and Shawn comes out wearing a bathrobe before getting up on the announce table and doing a striptease. Sid's reaction to this is just... man, words don't even do it justice. Completely and utterly hilarious. I already mentioned that he lived that Psycho Sid gimmick, and Jesus Christ can he make himself look like a nutjob. I'm not entirely certain he's acting most of the time, either. The whole striptease thing just reeked of Michaels fuelling the fire with all the people - Bret included - that were calling him on his sexuality at the time. They cut to commercial as he's unbuckling his belt and you can audibly hear Lawler scream on commentary. I'm not sure you could call it a foreshadowing of his eventual heel turn, because he's still over as a babyface pretty huge at this point, but as the year goes on you can tell that people are just ITCHING to boo him. He knows it, too. Post-match Sid powerbombs Pete Lethario on a table backstage. Austin also hits the ring mid-match and gives Bret a Stunner. The entire RAW '97 season sounds might tempting right about now.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://theteaparty.forumga.net
Admin
Admin


Posts : 1148
Join date : 2012-08-11

PostSubject: Re: 1997 Discussion   Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:11 am

Owen Hart v Davey Boy Smith (RAW, 3/3/97)
- Not as big a fan of this as most seem to be, but I'd still say it's an excellent match that really aught to be considered as a top pick. A nice comparison to it would be Bret/Hennig from KOR '93 in that you've got the whole idea of parity with both guys knowing each other so well (although that's more of a focus here), and the slow decline in "sportsmanship" by one of the competitors as time goes on. The early stages of this are my favourite. The mat work is about as "European" as you'll ever see in the company (unless Finlay and Danielson decide to take 15 minutes some time down the line and make a large percentage of 'net fans bust a nut) with the fancy schmancy escapes from arm bars and stuff. It's almost a game of "top this" at the start, at least until Davey tosses that idea and flattens Owen with a powerbomb. They had already established Davey's power advantage, and that spot reinforces it (there's a few more examples later in the match too, like Davey breaking the Sharpshooter by just kicking Owen halfway across the ring). Davey even holds the ropes open for Owen to get back in the ring, but like Bret/Hennig you sense it won't be long before someone drops this nice guy charade. Of course, it's Owen who drops it, and everybody knew it would be -- both guys are technically heels, but Davey's more or less the de facto babyface in Germany. Bret/Hennig was about one guy slipping back into his heel ways, where as this has Owen just doing what comes naturally to him. Love the spot where he eventually cheapshots Davey -- he plays up a knee injury before kicking an unsuspecting Davey in *his* knee, and the fact it came almost directly after Owen returning Davey the favour of holding the ropes to let him back in the ring makes it even better. Mike mentioned the middle dragging a little (I'm paraphrasing; I don't remember exactly what he said but I know he likes this more than I do so w/e), and I have to agree. It's somewhat surprising, because Owen's the one that's on offence. Owen's always extremely good at working a compelling control segment, but here he was a little too content to work basic holds for stretches and nothing really seemed to stick. If he brought the offence he did in the Wrestlemania X match against Bret, I honestly don't think I'd be ranking that one above this. Davey isn't the best at selling the beatdown once he makes his comeback, but the finishing stretch is pretty loaded with good spots and nearfalls. I'd love the finish if Owen never basically no-sold the powerslam to get to it, because the call back to Owen's greatest victory is a nice one. That's something that's always bothered me about this, actually. If they did a couple things differently here I could absolutely see myself calling this the best WWE TV match ever. I can understand why people do already, though. Top 20 might be pushing it a little (regarding my own ballot, anyway), but I could see it landing in my top 30 for sure. ****1/4
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://theteaparty.forumga.net
Admin
Admin


Posts : 1148
Join date : 2012-08-11

PostSubject: Re: 1997 Discussion   Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:13 am

Bret Hart v Sid (RAW, 3/17/97)
- Match itself is nothing even remotely special, and it's pretty short on top of that (history of WWE says it goes 7.40), but the whole angle surrounding it is great. I had only ever seen the post-match Bret promo, but I didn't actually know why he was saying what he was. In context, it's an awesome "I've had enough of this shit" promo, and it primes him for the cap on the heel turn perfectly. He's bitching about Undertaker costing him the belt, but it was Austin who hit the ring first to help *him*... and you didn't see Bret making any effort to stop it. It was a really fucking good slow turn, signs of which you could see as early as December, and Wrestlemania was the perfect way to cement it. The rest of the angle is more or less a big brawl between Austin, Bret, Sid and Undertaker, and on top of that we get a surprise appearance from Michaels who comes out to survey the wasteland. It's a pretty good summarisation of what the landscape in WWF was at the time; a handful of guys at the top of the card with enough behind them to be a champion that the fans would buy, and a general edginess to everything that we hadn't ever seen before. As a match, this doesn't really belong anywhere near a top 100, or even a top 200, but if you take it as a whole it's really, really good. That said, I won't be placing it.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://theteaparty.forumga.net
Admin
Admin


Posts : 1148
Join date : 2012-08-11

PostSubject: Re: 1997 Discussion   Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:16 am

Shawn Michaels & Steve Austin v Owen Hart & Davey Boy Smith (RAW, 5/26/97)
Awesome match. I watched just about everything that had led up to this a couple weeks ago - and indeed would've watched the match itself afterwards were it not for unforeseen disc issues (ie. it's fucked) - and this is about as perfect a "blow off" as I could hoping for. Owen and Davey are the tag champs, have been for a while, and are without question a formidable cohesive unit. Shawn and Austin, however, don't like each other one bit and have only found themselves in the position of having to tag with one another since they share the same BURNING HATRED for the Hart Foundation. Their hatred for their partner can be put on hold, even just for a little while, so they can stick it to their enemies by taking their gold belts.

Match is total southern tag formula with the babyfaces coming out the traps on fire, burning the heels (GEDDIT?!) at every turn. Austin's like a balder, drunker, meaner sociopathic Robert Gibson and Michaels is like a prettier Ricky Morton with a better haircut and cooler wrestling tights that makes the ladies shriek the shriek of THE HORN. The Beer 'N' Queer Express.

Michaels is a guy that, as a singles worker, people either tend to love or hate. No point going on about the pros and cons of Shawn Michaels in a singles environment because it's been done, done, done again and then done a couple more times, but as a tag worker I'd still say the guy's pretty exceptional. He's usually the go-to guy for the face-in-peril segment, and the heat segment on him here is really good. It comes after a short Austin-in-peril segment, but the work over on Michaels lasts much longer and in turn gives him more opportunities to eat Owen and the Bulldog's offence. Michaels working hope spots and selling a beatdown as the FIP during a tag match is perhaps where Michaels is at his best, and this is one of his best performances in that role. In terms of "singles star Shawn Michaels working a tag match", it's probably his best.

That said, Austin might be the best guy in the match. As 'Stone Cold', Austin was always so animated and seemed to be doing something to keep the crowd amped up at all times. This is a great example of him using his character to do a bunch of stuff that the crowd gladly eat up. The way he'll storm the ring, throw punches at Owen and Bulldog and then flip the ref' the bird before getting back onto the apron and yelling at Shawn to get his pretty boy ass in gear gets a massive reaction. He even makes the "phantom tag that the referee doesn't see because the heels have him distracted" spot look great, because it actually looks like he's trying to get a hold of Owen and Davey, as opposed to waltzing over to them and waiting for the ref' to stop him and throw him back out again like you see so often. Hebnar grabs a hold of him just as he's ready to rifle off a huge haymaker, and you get the sense he was legit ready to decapitate a fool, which he probably would've had he not been shut down because of a measly technicality. My favourite spot of the match might be Austin's reaction to the transition that kicks off Michaels' FIP section -- Davey hoists Shawn up and goes to crotch him along the top rope with that "gorilla press and walk backwards before dropping him on his grapes" spot they liked to do, and Austin's standing on the apron with his hands on his head and a look of dread on his face, which leads to him burying his face in his hands because his partner was just emasculated and probably cost him the tag belts as a result. It was great. The general aura of chaos he exudes has people going batshit all the time, too. You can buy the fact insanity just follows this guy around and any time he's on the scene there's the propensity for sheer motherfucking havoc to be wreaked.

Probably sounds like I'm talking this up as some kind of babyface carry-job, but it's not. Davey and Owen are good in their roles, working cut-off and distraction spots, but on the whole, this is a terrific performance from the babyfaces.

Post-match is a blast as well, with the Foundation hitting the ring and gang raping Shawn while Austin leaves them to it in favour of jumping Bret, who's been left all alone atop the ramp.

Definitely on my list.

****
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://theteaparty.forumga.net
Admin
Admin


Posts : 1148
Join date : 2012-08-11

PostSubject: Re: 1997 Discussion   Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:18 am

Owen Hart Vs Mankind - WWF Raw January 6th 1997
Owen starts things off pretty good, with a belly to belly and a Sharpshooter attempt! Mankind gets to the ropes as quick as possible, then clings on to them in a way that only a crazy bastard like Foley can (now I see why Craig loves Mick, they are both insane!) .

Taking a page out of HBK''s book from Mind Games, Hart tries to take apart the Mandible Claw hand... for about 10 seconds then he gets knocked out of the ring by Mankind .

Ahh, this is one of those "tough man" matches they did in early 1997, where there were no rules, and the guys just fought to see who was tougher (all you fuckers REALLY need to see Austin/Mankind from this time period btw, I uploaded it and everything!!!). Owen shows a side of him in this match that honestly I don't think I have ever seen (though I have been drinking tonight and I probably forgot another time when he was like this lol), as he tries to destroy Mankind on the outside of the ring.

Owen really is the big star of this match with his offence, from the... ummm... rolling kick thingy (you know what I mean...) to Foley who is on his knees, to, well, everything else he does .

Foley isn't going down without a fight though, because he loves fights, and he doesn't want it to end just yet (mainly because he is currently losing. Fuck me this review is retarded). Pretty cool sequence in the ring with Owen reversing a neck breaker into a DDT, then Mankind catching Owen coming off the ropes with the Mandible Claw, and getting the win a few moments later with an awesome looking piledriver.

Just like the other matches I remember from this whole "tough man" period; its fun as hell, and has plenty of quality behind it too. Not as good as the Mankind/Austin match, but still really good. Craig may rate this one a little too high by my standards, but its not like it sucks and everyone else hates it and only he loves it and nobody else can see its awesomeness...

AUSTIN VS UNDERTAKER BACKLASH 2002 IS AWESOME YOU FUCKS.

Ummm, yeah.

Rating: ***1/4
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://theteaparty.forumga.net
Admin
Admin


Posts : 1148
Join date : 2012-08-11

PostSubject: Re: 1997 Discussion   Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:19 am

Owen Hart Vs Mankind - Raw 6/1/97
Right, this match, is something I know I shouldn't enjoy as much as I do but still.. fuck it .

The match is just 7 minutes of pure, perfect action in my opinion. Mankind is doing his whole "mutilating the face of his opponent" schtick which I just adore, Mankind constantly going for the Mandible Claw is excellent. Owen working over Mankind's claw finger by stomping the shit out of it is brilliant, the brawling in this match is done better than Cena/Umaga in my opinion (Bar the awesome table spot from the LMS match).

I'm not gonna say too much because really since it's a 7 minute match I'd end up slipping into play by play. Really the match is just brilliantly fluid, with some great wrestling, some reversals that I don't think I ever saw again (Foley's reversal of the double axe handle into a mid-air mandible Claw being the obvious one), and an unexpected ending featuring my favourite move in wrestling.

Sure it's not a work of art and it is only 7 minutes but honestly... this is gonna crack my top 50, not got a hope in hell of making the final listings but it's going up there!

****
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://theteaparty.forumga.net
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: 1997 Discussion   

Back to top Go down
 
1997 Discussion
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Arrest made in Kirsten Hatfield's abduction from her Midwest City home in 1997 - Midwest City, OK
» The Friends of Summer Wine Appreciation Group & Discussion Forums
» Big Man
» VISION & GUIDELINES STATEMENT
» Hearing 1-25-10 - Discussion Thread - CLOSED

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
The Tea-Party :: WWF/WWE :: Raw-
Jump to: